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November, 12 2005
OK, folks-this is the general forum now for questions that don't seem to fit in any of the other threads. I'm going to sort some of the earlier posts into the appropriate forums, but it might take a while, so bear with me. I'll delete the ones that have already been reposted by their authors.
Imhiriel wrote: ...somehow I feel that Elrohir accomodates himself in that relationship to fit, and from time to time, his "true" character, wider experience, and especially different outlook etc. come to the fore to make the gap between them apparent. That's not to say that he makes this adaptation condescending or patronizing, but I can't shake the feeling that this is a temporary thing, that they will grow apart.
Yes, I definitely agree that Elrohir's longer & wider experience means that he and Hethlin are not equals in all things. I guess that what we've seen of him so far (which of course is only what Hethlin sees) suggests to me that despite his long life he hasn't really got things figured out for himself -- or hasn't reconciled himself to truths about himself. Or something; not sure. I guess in a way that I'm assuming that, because time just doesn't have the same significance for elves as it must for mortals, Elrohir has been in a state of arrested development for a long, long time. Totally wise and mature and honorable in some ways (trustworthy in battle, reliable on missions, etc.) but still somehow not comfortable in his own skin all the time. Seems like that's why he and Hethlin have been able to form such a good friendship, because despite the huge age gap and his much wider experiences, he's more or less where she is psychologically. Of course he's more self-confident than she is at this stage, and better able to manipulate, tease, and provoke than she is; but she's getting better and better at handling him.
I really do think he needs this relationship with Heth, that she really helped to cure many of his pains and sorrows, and he, too, would need time after Sauron's overthrow to adjust to the end of the war, Arwen's choosing, Elrond's departure etc. IMO, this time of adjustment would certainly be longer than for Mortals, due to his "world" being so far longer the way it was before tWotR and so the change that much more significant.
I think you're right, and the only thing that makes me think that he might finally be coming to terms with those necessary adjustments is that he's been fighting with Elrond about his future for many years now. But I might be very wrong there.
I think Hethlin will have a good share of that, too, but I think she would want to build something permanent, a home, or, to put it better, a "nest". And I simply just can't imagine Elrohir doing that.
Oh really? I can. I think he's more like Elrond than he realizes, it's just that he's been looking in the wrong places for signs that he's like his father. He cares a lot about family (which I realize doesn't automatically translate into a wish to have a family of his own). But I see Elladan and Elrohir's errantry occuring in the context of having a rock-solid family, both in their parents and in their maternal grandparents. It's easier to be footloose and fancy-free if you know that you've got a place to come back to. Compare the young Andrahar and Imrahil on that front. Seems like the only thing that's got Elrohir torn about going to Valinor or staying is the prospect of seeing his mother again. So if he in the end opted out of Valinor, I see him definitely wanting a family of his own in Middle Earth. Just my interpretation though.
But I think I'm still of the opinion that these obstacles can be overcome, and that the good that can come of their relationship outweighs the disadvantages. I guess what it comes down to is gut-feeling sigh...
Granted, and perhaps you're right! But that same reasoning can be applied to Elrohir and Hethlin, can't it?
Oh, yes, me too! Particularly as I have the strong feeling that Elrohir feels more for Heth that he admits to her and wants to face himself.
Yes, I think so too. Which is why I'm saddened and troubled by the idea that the elf gets the boot just because he's an elf. Likewise I'm upset on Imrahil's behalf -- I don't want to see him suffering from unrequited love of Hethlin. I like these characters too much. With Imrahil, my gut says "no" to a romance with Hethlin, for all the reasons I've already outlined. With Elrohir, everyone else's gut says "no." Isabeau has even suggested that he's the biter's bit, and my understanding of that term suggests that Elrohir is trying to make off with something that he's not supposed to have (and ultimately won't). It's the idea that he's not supposed to have it that I object to.
Not Erchirion, surely? Him, I can't figure out. I get a totally diffent image from the glimpses we've seen from him so far in Isabeau's stories than from Altariel's "Adrift".
Yep, that's who I'm guessing. Look at Isabeau's earlier reply to a question about what's going on in "The Lost?" Trouble between Imrahil and Erchirion involving a woman!
And look at how Erchirion started to go after Hethlin when she tackled Veleda (or whatever the pirate wench's name was). He was besotted with the pirate wench. He owes Hethlin an apology, at least. I suspect she'll get it, and they'll start talking more.
When you think about it there are a lot of similarities between Chirion and his father when Imrahil was his age. Sea-loving ladies men, for starters!
And furthermore, isn't it such fun that we're still arguing the old "who shall Heth nest with?"-question when Isabeau has already decided? I like it very much, indeed!
Yes, me too. Again, for my part it's not so much that I am strongly advocating for any one person to end up with Hethlin. Just trying to clarify where the characters are at right now. I think this debate started when I begged mercy for Imrahil to be freed of his infatuation with Hethlin so that he could meet someone else and be happy. After all the sadness and worry and danger of losing Nimrien, fighting the Ring War, etc. I'd like to see dear Imri happy! Likewise, I feel for Elrohir. I hope Hethlin doesn't end up inadvertently breaking the hearts of several of the finest men and elves in Middle Earth!
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