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Reconciliation

By:Dwimordene
 May, 4 2007

A journal for discussion of the story "Reconciliation."

   ~~~

Just what the hook says. I will try actually to reply to any comments in this journal.


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60 replies


 [31] Good morning, Imhiriel!

There were a couple of points in Chapter 8 where I couldn't come up with a logical explanation:

I'm glad it was those points, rather than some others, actually. But to reply to them...

Why did Elethil take his books and other things with him if he should want to commit suicide?

Why did he take one of the spare horses? Wouldn't that make him more "beholden" than if he had taken his own?


I'll go back and alter this, since I realize that it isn't very clear: the trunk is not with Elethil. It's been left in his room and Peloren suspects most of what Elethil owns has been packed into it, but he can't know that with certainty since the trunk is the one item esquires own that actually locks. If Elethil were simply running away, he'd take some things with him, but Peloren has the feeling that his friend has simply put everything away into the trunk and then left it all behind.

As for the spare horse bit, there's a question of "beholden to whom?" Elethil doesn't tell Berendil that, and Berendil doesn't ask. The esquires don't have the means to answer that question - what they know is simply that this is not normal behavior, that Elethil has been gone for hours and no one knows where he is, and that Peloren, who ought to know Elethil if anyone does, is convinced his friend is at risk of killing himself. Thanks to the gossip line, everyone can imagine it must be because of "the incident" (whatever version they heard) between Elethil and Andrahar. For Peloren, it's that, plus a gut feeling, based on what he's seen and his own knowledge of just what the two of them have been through lately. He's too afraid not to act on that feeling, but he's also hoping he is wrong because he can't think otherwise, and so is not thinking very clearly, period.

As for the others, I think Andrahar at least, for reasons of his own sense of this sort of thing in Harad, is pretty well convinced at this point that it's too late for Elethil, but he isn't going to say this out loud in front of Peloren until they are presented with a body. On that point, I think everyone is more or less silently agreed.

Why does Andrahar not know if there is another village in the vicinity? Shouldn't they know the geography of Belfalas, especially if the village is so close to Dol Amroth? And if he doesn't, why doesn't Imrahil at least? Why do they have to rely on Peloren's spotty knowledge?

Point to consider, though it's worth noting that even Aragorn doesn't know *every* patch of Eriador (Troll Shaws, but also bits of Eregion, for example) and he's had a lot longer than the esquires to get acquainted with the lands he protects. But that aside, I had thought that they'd be more familiar with that part of Belfalas that's south of them, since that's where the Corsairs usually hit (or so I've imagined - drawing from Trust and projecting that back into this story). Whereas to the north of Dol Amroth, it's sparsely inhabited anyway because the ground is sandy and not that great for crops. Going north is usually something one does to get somewhere else, like Anfalas, although perhaps it would be more logical for them to have studied the entire area at least by maps if not by scouting.

Nevertheless, given the relative isolation of the villagers, it still makes sense to ask them about the area - who knows if anyone has gone off to make a new settlement somewhere in the past year? That's not something the esquires would be likely to know unless they sat in at court sessions all the time and heard people coming to announce their new village and pledge fealty to Dol Amroth. Peloren has been to Calardin in the past year at least, so of the esquires, he's their best source of knowledge of the village and the outlying area. Dorhan, though, lives there and would know with certainty what was about.

Thanks for your comments - I'll go make a few adjustments to the narrative in light of them.

Dwim

Dwim
Posted:Jun 15, 2007 10:18 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [32] "Parley?"

Why is Jack Sparrow suddenley running around in my head. I love this, and at least Pel and Andra are meneded now all we need is for Elya to turn up in one bit (or enough of one bit for Kendrion to fix him up.

I love all the plot twists in this, from rescuing errant suicidal esquires to fighting corsairs, all we need now is for Imri to show up with the cavalrey. Then they can all go and live happily forever after. (or not as the case may be)

Rochnariel
Posted:Jun 22, 2007 17:29 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [33] Hi Rochnariel.

Why is Jack Sparrow suddenley running around in my head?

I seriously thought of posting a disclaimer that it's not my fault Tolkien uses the very same word. ;-)

I love all the plot twists in this, from rescuing errant suicidal esquires to fighting corsairs, all we need now is for Imri to show up with the cavalrey. Then they can all go and live happily forever after. (or not as the case may be)

Yes, "Reconciliation" does get around, doesn't it? I'm glad you're enjoying it so far.

Dwim

Dwimordene
Posted:Jun 23, 2007 00:17 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [34] I'm glad it was those points, rather than some others, actually.

Does that mean there were other points you thought were unclear?

I had thought that they'd be more familiar with that part of Belfalas that's south of them, since that's where the Corsairs usually hit (or so I've imagined - drawing from Trust and projecting that back into this story). Whereas to the north of Dol Amroth, it's sparsely inhabited anyway

Good points. Makes sense to me, particularly in light of this:
Going north is usually something one does to get somewhere else, like Anfalas,

I think one tends to forget that in earlier times, there truly were blank, unknown spaces on the maps ("there be monsters" and all that) if they was not a populated areas and/or just used to pass through. Areas that were simply not interesting in themselves.

Thanks for your comments - I'll go make a few adjustments to the narrative in light of them.

Glad my questions were useful!

Imhiriel
Posted:Jun 29, 2007 12:33 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [35] I'm with Peloren in not understanding the Southron . Was all this parley only a a ploy for time (waiting still for the missing ship)? What did he mean when he said Peloren was no messenger? That this is somehow a justification for violating the parley?

I'm glad Elethil did not commit suicide after all. I was so sure he had, but it's good he managed to get through his worst despair to see a better path. And a good answer to my question from Chapter 8 about the horse.

There are some odd characters throughout the chapter - I guess there has been a glitch with formatting.

Look outs had spied him and his men on the beach

Isn't "lookout" one word?

though we've had a good pair of eyes among the Haradrim in the last year

Hee-hee. Two pairs of eyes, to be exact...

Isn't that a great deal of effort on the side of the Haradrim, just to raid some poor fishing villages along the coast - warrior caste, minor lord etc.? Especially as this stretch of the coast is so poorly inhabited, as you pointed out? Or was there something more behind the plan?

It's good that Ornendil and the others in charge know there must be a drastic change to everything that happenend.
I suggest they begin with sacking that horrible spymaster. I don't care if he is charge of protecting Belfalas and Gondor, he had no right to abuse his position as teacher to erode Andrahar's already difficult position and insinuate things, particularly with Pelethil et al. (BTW, and completely off-topic, it reminds me of one of my pet peeves with Hogwarts - the teachers there are so high-handed, unfair and arbitrary - and not only "baddies" like Snape - that it is no wonder if the kids try to solve everything on their own: they can't trust the teachers to help.)

Ah, one thing I forgot to ask you before: "Badhon" - is this an allusion to the Arthurian battle of Badon Hill?

Imhiriel
Posted:Jun 29, 2007 13:09 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [36] I started posting this as a review, but it was getting to long and so I thought it would be better to post it here... and it would be easier for you to respond to if you wanted to. ;)

Oh, very glad to see Elya is alive and that hopefully he can now get help. This is my favorite scene - out of many favorites! :)

...as he opened his eyes, and saw Elethil gazing down at him, eyes haunted, it seemed, with the dread of a bad year's furtherance. It was that, perhaps, that cooled his wrath, and kindled something a great deal more tender in its place. For whatever else he might be, was not Elethil his dearest friend?

And so he laced his fingers in with Elethil's, and squeezed, and said, "'Twas fear made you go to Badhon, Elya. But it did not bring you down from there. That was something else."

"How can you say that?" Elethil demanded hoarsely.

"Because," Peloren said simply, "I am your friend. And I know you." He paused, watching as something awful twisted in the other's face; twisted, and then suddenly broke, as Elethil drew an unsteady breath and blinked hard...


I like the images you show there of the pain that Elya is going through and has been going through for such a long time... we know that but seeing it here through Pel's eyes is just moving and it made me tear up for some reason. I just so feel for these guys in such a tough situation.

I also really liked when Orenedil made the comment that Pel wouldn't have failed if he had felt he could trust any of his brothers. It's so very true, there were so very few people he could go to in his time of need and that's a horrible place to be in and it's ironic that he ends up with the person that should be his bitterest enemy in such a situation. Orenedil is going to have a difficult time explaining all of this to the prince, but even more he is going to have a difficult time turning this all around. I don't envy him!

Very good chapter and I look forward to next week's installment.

By the way, the formatting is off. At least it is showing up strange on my computer and it hasn't with other chapters. Strange letters and such for ; and for ... and in Theorwyn's name. I could read it by pretty much guessing what each of the symbols were supposed to be, but maybe you could look at it?

Radbooks
Posted:Jun 29, 2007 14:13 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [37] Quick comment about the weird symbols several people have mentioned: I don't know why that happens, only that this confirms it is not just my browser. I've regularly seen these sorts of symbols post in other people's stories, and they come and go - sometimes I can read a story just fine, with no funky symbols. Other times, the very same story will have them. I don't know what causes that to happen. I figured it was just that I have this really ancient browser running on an equally ancient Mac OS, but you can't all be in the same situation!

It's definitely *not* anything with the original document, however, and the original chapter 10 document is no different from other documents I've posted.

So, to quote "Shakespeare in Love," "It's a mystery!" I'll attempt reposting to see if that makes it go away. Keep your fingers crossed.

Dwim
Posted:Jun 30, 2007 01:16 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [38] Regarding the weird symbols-this is the first chapter it's happened with that I can see from my end. If the repost doesn't fix it, contact Mike. Maybe he can figure out what's happening.

Good chapter, Dwim. I'm still weirded out a bit by the Haradrim's parley. And I'm feeling sorry for Ornendil, who has quite the mess on his watch.


Posted:Jun 30, 2007 09:43 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [39] It worked! The strange symbols are gone now. Thanks so much.

Radbooks
Posted:Jun 30, 2007 10:02 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [40] Does that mean there were other points you thought were unclear?

Not so much unclear as implausible. You have no idea how many times the move from Dol Amroth to Calardin was redone!

Re: knowing one's 'home turf'

I think one tends to forget that in earlier times, there truly were blank, unknown spaces on the maps ("there be monsters" and all that) if they was not a populated areas and/or just used to pass through. Areas that were simply not interesting in themselves.

I'll attest that there are large swaths of suburban and rural areas of the U.S. that are no more than places on maps, and very blank places at that. But certainly, a less mobile population would find anything too far beyond the borders of their own community to be a vast, unknown and unknowable waste. Swan Knights aren't quite so constrained and are expected to travel somewhat, but unless there were some really good reason to know with precision what was between Strategic Point of Interest A and Strategic Point of Interest B, they probably wouldn't know much beyond "we're about 20 miles from anywhere we need to be."

Glad my questions were useful!

They do help remind me that while all is clear in my own head, it is not necessarily so in reality!

TTFN,

Dwim

Dwim
Posted:Jul 1, 2007 23:54 GMT  Reply to this Comment
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