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Reconciliation

By:Dwimordene
 May, 4 2007

A journal for discussion of the story "Reconciliation."

   ~~~

Just what the hook says. I will try actually to reply to any comments in this journal.


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60 replies


 [21] I like Rahur, although I can well imagine Peloren snickering at him a bit. I like a horse with character although I've met a few with a bit too much, or maybe it was more of a personalitiy crash.

I found out where the idea that Andra's name could be Sindarin came from, Soledad made a comment about it in Pawns and Symbols, although I don't think I'd have thought anything of it apart from the fact it makes sense in sindarin as well, and = long, rad = is path or road or rada = to make or find the way and har = south so I always had it as meaning a long way south or somthing similar. Then again with the Haradric translation (which I think is great BTW) and the Sindarin one it does give it an interesting double meaning.

I can't wait for Friday, I'll have to find out about Elostinion before then, and maybe more ultimatums soon as well :p

Nargil

Nargil
Posted:May 28, 2007 18:46 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [22] Good heavens, Dwim! Another tight and troubling chapter. What you are putting these poor people through... Elethil seems to be on the verge of a nervous breakdown, you give Peloren one of the most embarrassing injuries available, and I shudder to think of how the new rumors are going to twist things.

The other esquires are, of course, not appeased at all by the moratorium on pranks, and Elethil seems to be taking the brunt of it. Do the others think that Elethil and Peloren took their troubles to the officers? After the officers' obviously punishing first term, it seems to me that this sudden "about-face" could be open to many interpretations by the peons.

What is going through Imrahil's mind? Is he trying to help Pel and Elya due to guilt, after hearing the rumors? How much contact do he and Andra have, with their very different schedules, and what does Andra think of Imrahil's efforts with P&E? And my goodness - Imrahil taking language lessons at the Fairweather. It is so appropriate, and I laughed myself silly.

And WHAT is up with Harthil's questioning??? Grrr...

I'm pretty fuzzy on the pages. Who usually becomes a page, and about how old are they? Do pages generally go on to become esquires? What are their duties? It would seem that it would give a youngster quite a headstart to be a page first, although I only noticed them getting horsemanship training. I don't know that you have so many details worked out, of course, just that Middle Ages and Middle-earth don't always match, and I wasn't sure where the differences might be here.

Denise
Posted:Jun 1, 2007 05:39 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [23] Yikes!

Poor Elethil seems like he's going to snap, if Andra doesn't eat him first. The poor lad looks like he's about to try somthing drastic. I hope it doesn't kill him.

I love Pel's thought about Andra's Haradric being elegant for a street rat, if only he knew. And Andra's comment over blended asphiants was too good to be true. I love Imri's latest method of language tuition, I can't wait to here Eomer "So who taught you Rohiric?" *snort* only him though, although it's quite clever really puts a whole new spin on extracaricular (sp?)activities.

Did I ever mention how good these fics are for the vocabulary? I do my second readthrough with a dictionary and look up all the words I don't understand.

Harthil is rpidly becoming public enemy number one, shouldn't try and play the esquires off against Andra like that. I don't care if he is a spy, or maybe he's on Denethor's payroll.

Poor Peloren though, in the future he must remember to wear a cushion when fighting mock battles.

Do we ge to see Andra's side of things next? And will Elethil survive this fic?

I do love rolling out of bed at 7am and being able to read this straight away, makes it worth geting up in the morning, can't wait till friday,

Nargil

Nargil
Posted:Jun 1, 2007 18:43 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [24] Late reply to Nargil.

I like Rahur, although I can well imagine Peloren snickering at him a bit. I like a horse with character although I've met a few with a bit too much, or maybe it was more of a personalitiy crash.

I personally have this image of Imrahil joining Peloren at the rails to watch Andrahar go at it again with Rahur, and the following exchange occuring:

Imrahil: "So, how's he doing?"

Peloren: "Fifth fall this morning. Make that six."

Imrahil: "Better than yesterday."

Peloren *distracted nod* "Uh huh."

Imrahil: "They're going to kill each other."

Peloren: "Might just."

Imrahil: "Huh." *beat* *eyes Horsemaster* "Have you mentioned this to Andra?"

Peloren: "Of course."

Imrahil: "So the reason you're just watching is... ?"

Peloren: "I think they like each other."

Imrahil: "You're really enjoying this, aren't you?"

Peloren, with relish: "You have no idea how much! My lord."

I found out where the idea that Andra's name could be Sindarin came from, Soledad made a comment about it in Pawns and Symbols,

I had forgotten that. I just assumed it would be Haradric, although as you say, the double meaning works nicely, sort of like "Orthanc."

Dwim


Posted:Jun 1, 2007 23:03 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [25] Hi Denise.

Good heavens, Dwim! Another tight and troubling chapter. What you are putting these poor people through... Elethil seems to be on the verge of a nervous breakdown, you give Peloren one of the most embarrassing injuries available, and I shudder to think of how the new rumors are going to twist things.

Thanks! Yes, things are moving to a head. Stay tuned!

Do the others think that Elethil and Peloren took their troubles to the officers? After the officers' obviously punishing first term, it seems to me that this sudden "about-face" could be open to many interpretations by the peons.

I don't give any real read on that aspect - some, maybe many, may think that that's exactly what happened. Others may be wondering if there's pressure from paternal or other quarters to ease up on P & E. Still others may think the masters have just gotten sick and tired of staying up all hours to run the esquires ragged (I'm sure the officers and sergeants wouldn't disagree with that sentiment).

What is going through Imrahil's mind? Is he trying to help Pel and Elya due to guilt, after hearing the rumors? How much contact do he and Andra have, with their very different schedules, and what does Andra think of Imrahil's efforts with P&E?

This is one aspect of the narrative I wish I could have done better. The decision to focus on Peloren and Elethil and Andrahar has certain limits, and the way this chapter unfolded, it just works better if I don't allow Andrahar's viewpoint to surface 'til later. And at that point, the pacing works best if I don't focus on the Andra-Imri relationship (again - keep the focus on the main trio). Which sucks, because earlier drafts did have an Andra-Imri scene which gave an idea of how things were going between them, but there just doesn't seem to be a good place to wedge it in there.

I do think Imrahil has been trying to keep up with Andrahar, it's just that it's hard for them to find a time and place to get together the way they used to. Andrahar, too, is conscious of a new distance between them by virtue of the different roles they occupy, and being less socially adept (in Gondor) than Imrahil, but also having a far more strict sense of propriety, he's not entirely sure how to handle this. Also, I read Andrahar as having one basic reaction to stress, namely aggressively to put whatever causes it or aggravates it at as much distance as he can.

And my goodness - Imrahil taking language lessons at the Fairweather. It is so appropriate, and I laughed myself silly.

Vice into virtue - that's Imrahil's middle name for much of his youth, I think.

And WHAT is up with Harthil's questioning??? Grrr...

Stay tuned...

I'm pretty fuzzy on the pages.

I'm also fuzzy about them. I know they exist, and I know boys between, say, 8 (Liahan's age, I think, when he came to stay at Dol Amroth) and 16, probably served in that capacity. They probably are exclusively the sons of nobility, and they get to do all the menial court chores the esquires don't end up doing, heh heh. Ask Isabeau, though--I'm not sure of anything beyond those rather vague notions.

Dwim


Posted:Jun 1, 2007 23:21 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [26] I love Pel's thought about Andra's Haradric being elegant for a street rat, if only he knew.

Thanks! I mean, you figure at some point, somebody would have to ask: "Doesn't he seem like he *knows* a little too much to be *just* a street rat?" Methinks Peloren's recognition of this point would eventually lead him to conclude that Andrahar cannot be only what rumor gives him out to be, or only what the official story says. How exactly he would approach finding out more would be interesting in its own right, but in this story, it's the least of his worries.

And Andra's comment over blended asphiants was too good to be true. I love Imri's latest method of language tuition, I can't wait to here Eomer "So who taught you Rohiric?" *snort* only him though, although it's quite clever really puts a whole new spin on extracaricular (sp?)activities.

Thanks, Nargil! I've had fun with the linguistic aspects of this story, and with the teaching aspect. Language lessons are kind of boring if you're just looking on, and how do you represent what's at stake in a language that doesn't really exist? It's been fun finding ways of presenting the difficulties, grammatical and otherwise, of learning a language that is radically different.

And Imrahil's method of study does seem to have struck the right note for his character....

Did I ever mention how good these fics are for the vocabulary? I do my second readthrough with a dictionary and look up all the words I don't understand.

I'm glad that they help and make the learning process fun!

Poor Peloren though, in the future he must remember to wear a cushion when fighting mock battles.

I fear there are some things you just can't protect that easily.

Do we ge to see Andra's side of things next?

Yes.

And will Elethil survive this fic?

Now, it would be cheating to tell you anything about this one way or the other. For shame! ;-)

Thanks for your comments, Nargil! 'Til next Friday, same time, same place.

Dwim


Posted:Jun 1, 2007 23:37 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [27] Which sucks, because earlier drafts did have an Andra-Imri scene which gave an idea of how things were going between them, but there just doesn't seem to be a good place to wedge it in there.

Well... You could always post it here as a "sidebar" to Reconciliation, if it is something polished enough to share. *hopeful look from someone who always loves reading Imri/Andra interaction*

Denise
Posted:Jun 2, 2007 02:49 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [28] ^You read my mind Denise.

Dwim, love the little sceen with Rahur, you should post it as a drabble or somthing.

Nargil
Posted:Jun 3, 2007 06:30 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [29] Well, that is a great idea. I would also love to see a bit more of how Andra and Imrahil work out things between them. They haven't seen each other for a year...

obsidianj
Posted:Jun 8, 2007 21:17 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [30] There were a couple of points in Chapter 8 where I couldn't come up with a logical explanation:

Why did Elethil take his books and other things with him if he should want to commit suicide?

Why did he take one of the spare horses? Wouldn't that make him more "beholden" than if he had taken his own?

From these details I get the feeling there is still hope, but I feel this contradicts the way Peloren's PoV is written here, what it evokes in me as a reader. Of course, it might be that Peloren is wrong, and the PoV might be misleading intentionally to keep the tension high, but the others seem to share his pessimism, and the chapter has such a "flavour" of "too late"...

Why does Andrahar not know if there is another village in the vicinity? Shouldn't they know the geography of Belfalas, especially if the village is so close to Dol Amroth? And if he doesn't, why doesn't Imrahil at least? Why do they have to rely on Peloren's spotty knowledge?

Imhiriel
Posted:Jun 15, 2007 05:06 GMT  Reply to this Comment

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