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Hethlin of Anorien

By:Isabeau
 February, 25 2006

I know CMC's a done deal, but since I intend to give it a thorough editing in the future, I'll include it in this thread, as well as make this a place for any other Heth questions not appropriate for the Silver Swan thread.


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162 replies


 [11] Imhiriel wrote:

I don't know how far you have already come in your edit of CMC, but I thought I'd mention some things I still remember from my last reading of the story. Perhaps you have already noted and incorporated them somewhere, but anyway, here goes:

- In "Cage no Bird" her father muses about her eyes: "...in the unlikely event she should ever be blooded, then they too would come to resemble his, with threads of gold running through the grey." - This is never mentioned in CMC, and neither in your other stories.

Actually, it is, in Musings. Imrahil has certainly noticed. And part of the reason it isn't mentioned is that it doesn't happen until they're on the way back from Lorien in CMC. It's something that will probably become apparent to Heth eventually-it doesn't happen until the blooding ceremony and the effect increases over time, the longer you interact with the Eagles.

- The levels of Minas Tirith are numbered from the bottom to the top.

That one I have noticed and intend to remedy.

- Éowyn's eyes are grey, not blue.

Hmmmm. I'll change it if Altariel does. If not, then I guess you can say that's another way Heth-verse differs from canon. I will say that I have blue eyes, and if I wear something grey, they look grey.

- The question of how Hethlin came by her father's sword. I admit I don't exactly remember what the problem was and if/how you solved that already.

The problem was that she mentioned not knowing whether her family were properly laid to rest or not, and whether the Rangers had even found the right farmstead, when Mablung had brought her father's sword back to her. It's on the list of things to fix.

Isabeau
Posted:Mar 6, 2006 19:50 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [12] Imhiriel wrote: Éowyn's eyes are grey, not blue.

Altariel responded: *guilty cough* This might be partly my fault. I wrote Eowyn with blue eyes all the way through AGOC but have pretended not to notice for ages.

So-I'll change it in my stuff if you change it in yours....


Posted:Mar 6, 2006 19:52 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [13] Isabeau wrote: I'll change it in my stuff if you change it in yours....

I think I'll leave it. I made a whole big deal out of Bron's eyes being blue too (teach me to overdo the symbolism). Maybe all that white Eowyn wears makes them look bluer. Or maybe Faramir is just romanticizing the whole thing (surely not possible!).

Altariel
Posted:Mar 7, 2006 03:23 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [14] Also some Q's from the monster thread: Where is Heth’s daughter in Fourth Age? Did Heth have other children? And did all of them gain her mind gifts, or just the eldest daughter/son? I remember wondering in CMC if her little brother would have had the gift to speak to Eagles, or if it went to the eldest or heir only. Did her forefathers ever have more than one son to carry on the bloodline?

Denise
Posted:Mar 8, 2006 01:54 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [15] Where is Heth’s daughter in Fourth Age? Did Heth have other children? And did all of them gain her mind gifts, or just the eldest daughter/son?

I'm guessing that the answers to these questions will remain in the black box until the matter of Who Hethlin Marries is revealed. ;)

Did her forefathers ever have more than one son to carry on the bloodline?

Good question, I was wondering that too. It does seem pretty interesting that in Tolkien's world one can have uninterrupted dynasties that lasts for millennia, always producing at least one heir. So unlikely, even when inheritance can pass on through the female line. Must be that elven blood.

Of course for Hethlin's house it hasn't been that long; but I too was wondering if her father didn't at least have some cousins or second-cousins.

Rebecca
Posted:Mar 8, 2006 07:48 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [16] OK, this is a very small thing that in fact might not be true for Middle Earth, but it was true for medieval Europe, so I raise it here. As you probably know Isabeau, I especially appreciate Elrohir's obsession with oranges, just because it's funny but also because it highlights one of those interesting things about the Elves in Middle Earth -- they dwelt for millenia in a rather small territory and missed out on a lot of the small, pleasurable things in the world!

OK, on to the thing I want to raise: the word "orange" came to English from French, where it had been imported from Italian, which got it from Arabic, which got it from Persian, and so on. The word followed the fruit's slow movement across Asia into Europe. Before oranges were known in Western Europe, anything that did happen to be of a similar hue to that fruit was probably described as red-yellow or fire-colored.

So if the same conditions exist in Middle Earth, then when Elrohir shows Hethlin the first orange she's ever seen, she probably wouldn't describe it as a strange, orange-colored fruit.

And perhaps you already knew that. Or perhaps it doesn't apply in Middle Earth because there are other common red-yellow objects. Or perhaps it just doesn't matter. But I figured I'd mention it.

Rebecca
Posted:Mar 11, 2006 11:37 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [17] The Denethor discussion jarred my memory about something I'd wondered about a long time ago. The Witch King seems to know that Imrahil is in charge of the city -- but how did he know that a) Denethor was dead, and b) Imrahil assumed control?

I'm assuming that, unlike in movieverse, in the Unabeauverse Denethor did not go careening off the cliff in a ball of fire. He remained in the crypt, didn't he? So there's no way that the Witch King would have had access to knowledge of his death. And even if the WK perceived the absence of the Steward's control, why wouldn't he assume that Mithrandir (Gandalf) was in command? Wasn't the rationale Mithrandir gave for asking Imrahil to take over that the troops and/or the lords might balk at his leadership?

Related to a question I think Denise raised recently about when Imrahil and Mithrandir meet for the first time, I'm wondering if Faramir ever discusssed Mithrandir with Hethlin while they were in Ithilien? She didn't seem to be very awed or intrigued by him. Of course we've never seen them interacting -- it appears that they never exchanged words. Why, I wonder? Seems he'd have an interest in discussing her experience with the Witch King.

Rebecca
Posted:Mar 11, 2006 22:03 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [18] Denise wrote: Also some Q's from the monster thread: Where is Heth’s daughter in Fourth Age?

That one I can't answer yet.

Did Heth have other children?

Yes.

And did all of them gain her mind gifts, or just the eldest daughter/son?

Haven't decided yet, though if I ever actually write the rest of Fourth Age, it will turn out that Tel has it, much to his surprise.

Did her forefathers ever have more than one son to carry on the bloodline?

From CMC: (Aragorn says-)"Your line never thrived, and was often fraught with misfortune, yet it never entirely failed either. The men of your house remembered their disgrace, and sought to atone for the shame their ancestor had brought upon them. Thus, they were always at the forefront of battles, and proved to be fell warriors time and time again, though because of their boldness they often fell in battle untimely young. Yet, always could they find wives, and always there was at least one heir.”

My feeling is that there may have been times when there was more than one son born, but given their need for atonement, though the line didn't die out entirely, there were never a lot of them around. I think Halaran was the last of his house. A lot of old things are fading out at the time of the Ring War, so this seems to be appropriate. But unlike the Elves, I can restore the fortunes of the House of the Eagle.




Isabeau
Posted:Mar 12, 2006 06:59 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [19] Rebecca wrote: OK, on to the thing I want to raise: the word "orange" came to English from French, where it had been imported from Italian, which got it from Arabic, which got it from Persian, and so on. The word followed the fruit's slow movement across Asia into Europe. Before oranges were known in Western Europe, anything that did happen to be of a similar hue to that fruit was probably described as red-yellow or fire-colored.

So if the same conditions exist in Middle Earth, then when Elrohir shows Hethlin the first orange she's ever seen, she probably wouldn't describe it as a strange, orange-colored fruit.

And perhaps you already knew that. Or perhaps it doesn't apply in Middle Earth because there are other common red-yellow objects. Or perhaps it just doesn't matter. But I figured I'd mention it.

That's a good point. I might go back and change that. Those are the sort of little details that do give flavor to a story.

Isabeau
Posted:Mar 12, 2006 07:01 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [20] I suspected you wouldn't want to answer all my Fourth Age questions (even before Rebecca reminded me) but thanks for the answers you could give. :)

And did all of them gain her mind gifts, or just the eldest daughter/son?

Haven't decided yet, though if I ever actually write the rest of Fourth Age, it will turn out that Tel has it, much to his surprise.


I love it! I hope you do get around to writing more of Fourth Age one day, for I would love to see his initial interaction with Gwaenaur or her successor. And I like the idea that this gift becomes part of the Elessar Telcontar line. Which reminds me - what is "Tel" short for?

Denise
Posted:Mar 12, 2006 15:02 GMT  Reply to this Comment
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