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Princes of Dol Amroth

By:Isabeau
 February, 25 2006

Questions about the life and times of Imrahil and his family can be asked here, including questions about Ultimatums, Kin-Strife and the shorter stories. Discussions about Brand can go either here or in the Best-Loved Son thread, since his stories sort of overlap both cycles.


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292 replies


 [281] Sounded a bit snippy there, wasn't my intention. Something else that occurred to me after the fact is that Hethlin is an orphan. So is Eowyn. So Eowyn is willing to open her family to Hethlin because she knows how it feels.

Ack! Got a bunch of Chapter 16 (or maybe 17), but I have to fill in the stuff between.


Isabeau
Posted:Oct 6, 2010 07:36 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [282] I was a bit surprised at Eowyn's anxiety about her involvement (or lack thereof) with her infant son's care. Given how iconoclastic she is in general, not kowtowing to the society ladies, etc., I was a bit startled at first that she went along with the dictate to leave nursing to a wet-nurse, even though she was clearly torn about that decision. But I suppose her upbringing didn't afford her many nurturing female role models, so perhaps here the pressure to conform touched upon something she didn't feel confident about in the first place? Poor thing -- how many modern mothers today get similarly badgered into uncomfortable compromises that they're assured are for the best!

I was a bit disappointed to see her being waspish with Maidh about "no more onion pies." I perceived that she was venting and trying to assert her concern for her son ... but it did seem kind of ironic for her to chastise Maidh for an unforeseeable "error" Maidh made while serving as a substitute for Eowyn in such a fundamental, intimate way. I guess I was expecting Eowyn to display solidarity with Maidh -- Brand did more to acknowledge the imposition of a finicky baby on the woman nursing when he noted how annoying his mother found it to only eat bland foods. I suppose that, unlike Brand or Hethlin, Eowyn's disdain for the constraints of social rules and traditions doesn't necessarily translate into an egalitarian attitude toward the lower classes. (Geek aside: of course I had to look up the root of "Maidh" which is a great choice of name for the nurse, both in its Noldorin meaning and what it conveys to the English-speaking reader).

How close are Eowyn and Arwen at this point? I can't imagine Arwen surrendering the feeding of her children to wet-nurses. Of course that doesn't mean she'd feel herself in a position to offer advice to Eowyn on that front ...

Isabeau I'm SO excited and pleased that you've picked up this story again! :)

Gwidhiel
Posted:Oct 6, 2010 08:29 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [283] Sounded a bit snippy there, wasn't my intention.

I could understand it if it had been meant: I didn't explain my thoughts very well and my question looks simple-minded in review. I knew they were at least somewhat close, if not very close, and I had thought about it from both close-to-Faramir and close-to-Eowyn perspectives. But for some reason it didn't completely mesh for me when Eowyn referred to Hethlin along with Brand, Andrahar and Imrahil all in one breath, so to speak.

So Eowyn is willing to open her family to Hethlin because she knows how it feels.

Too true! That also helps me sort out things better. (It also finally occurs to me that after suffering through much exposure to the worst of Gondorian lady-folk, that Eowyn would be starving for a chance to talk to a woman that better understands her.)

I'll keep my fingers crossed for your muse to do the fill-in writing quickly and smoothly. Thanks!

Denise
Posted:Oct 6, 2010 13:29 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [284] But for some reason it didn't completely mesh for me when Eowyn referred to Hethlin along with Brand, Andrahar and Imrahil all in one breath, so to speak.

Actually I too was thrown a little bit by that at first, Denise, but then I figured that Eowyn has many reasons, both pragmatic and compassionate, to extend herself to Hethlin. And now that Imrahil's secret is "out" I'll bet Eowyn will be even more keen to include Hethlin in family gatherings. I'm assuming that Eowyn will be a hearty supporter of Imrahil's suit, no?

Gwidhiel
Posted:Oct 6, 2010 14:08 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [285] I'm assuming that Eowyn will be a hearty supporter of Imrahil's suit, no?

To be honest I could see her being torn, and/or being a supporter for not-entirely unselfish reasons - but then I'm struggling to get a good grasp of Eowyn's inner thoughts, obviously. *g*

Denise
Posted:Oct 6, 2010 15:00 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [286] To be honest I could see her being torn, and/or being a supporter for not-entirely unselfish reasons

Oh me too! I don't doubt that she genuinely likes Hethlin and wishes to see her happy. But obviously having Hethlin wed to Imrahil would be good for Eowyn, because she wouldn't have to face the possibility of Imrahil marrying an annoying "lady of Gondor" who'd then contaminate family gatherings. And of course a marriage between Hethlin and Imrahil would neatly resolve any lingering mixed feelings Faramir might be unconsciously harboring where Hethlin is concerned.

I'm struggling to get a good grasp of Eowyn's inner thoughts, obviously. *g*

Me too. When I said in my earlier post that I was "surprised" or "disappointed" about various things that Eowyn said or did, it's not that I thought she was behaving "out of character" -- I just find that I don't easily discern or relate to her mental world, motivations, etc. Since I encounter plenty of people in real life like that, Eowyn here rings "true" -- but she's a hard nut to crack, at least for me!

Gwidhiel
Posted:Oct 6, 2010 17:12 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [287] Gwidhiel said: I was a bit surprised at Eowyn's anxiety about her involvement (or lack thereof) with her infant son's care. Given how iconoclastic she is in general, not kowtowing to the society ladies, etc., I was a bit startled at first that she went along with the dictate to leave nursing to a wet-nurse, even though she was clearly torn about that decision. But I suppose her upbringing didn't afford her many nurturing female role models, so perhaps here the pressure to conform touched upon something she didn't feel confident about in the first place? Poor thing -- how many modern mothers today get similarly badgered into uncomfortable compromises that they're assured are for the best!

This is exactly what I figured had happened. I re-read Game of Chess and there's a part in there that talks about Eowyn thinking that she is ill, not even knowing that she is merely experiencing the normal rigors of early pregnancy. Building upon that, I figured that a woman who was raised that totally clueless about normal female things would be vulnerable to suggestion from others about how she should conduct herself.

As for Maidh, I didn't think Eowyn was that waspish, but perhaps she was-she is a difficult voice for me. She was looking forward to a pleasant, peaceful evening showing off her firstborn and then this business happens and makes her look bad. She's starting to be rather stressed out anyway, a la Chess and I thought this would play OK.


Isabeau
Posted:Oct 7, 2010 08:29 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [288] Gwidhiel said: I'm assuming that Eowyn will be a hearty supporter of Imrahil's suit, no?

I'd have to say she would be. The obvious advantages to having her rival bound up in marriage aside, she genuinely wants Hethlin to be happy and wishes the same for Imrahil. And as was noted most astutely above, if Imrahil marries Hethlin, then Eowyn doesn't have to worry about being nice to one of those flighty Gondorian society ladies (not that I can see Imrahil marrying one at this point!). And she rather likes the idea of Hethlin actually becoming family.

The invitation to a what is a family gathering is probably at least in part that this is the first chance she's had to even see Hethlin in the last two years and she assumes that since Hethlin is part of Imrahil's household, he wouldn't mind bringing her.


Isabeau
Posted:Oct 7, 2010 08:35 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [289] As for Maidh, I didn't think Eowyn was that waspish, but perhaps she was-she is a difficult voice for me.

I'm guessing she was hard for Tolkien too. I don't think he was very good at getting into female heads. And she wasn't actually nasty to Maidh, she just came across to me as a bit curt and unsympathetic.

She was looking forward to a pleasant, peaceful evening showing off her firstborn and then this business happens and makes her look bad.

Yes, after I'd thought about it a bit I could see why she'd feel like that.

She's starting to be rather stressed out anyway, a la Chess and I thought this would play OK.

You know it *does* play OK - I think it's a good thing if Eowyn comes across to others (readers or other characters) as "difficult" sometimes. Better difficult than dull! It just requires a bit more thought to see where she's coming from, and generates more comment. Just like in real life. When you think about it, it would be weird if Eowyn settled happily into normalcy in Gondor, after her life up to and including the Ring War. And if she settled into easy and confident non-conformity, she'd verge on being superhuman, which usually doesn't play so well.

Gwidhiel
Posted:Oct 7, 2010 09:19 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [290] What a great …owyn discussion. For me, …owyn's actions are often characterized by impulsiveness - sudden grand gestures, swiftly changing moods. I imagine her face darkening in an instant and brightening again just as suddenly.

Altariel
Posted:Oct 8, 2010 11:18 GMT  Reply to this Comment
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