Tolkien Fan Fiction Home Tolkien Fan FictionAll the tales of the Valar and the Elves are so knit together that one may scarce expound any one without needing to set forth the whole of their great history.
Read Journal Entry
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  Journal Main Page  Isabeau's Journal  Back
Isabeau's Journal
The place to discuss my stories and other Tolkien-related topics.
Profile:Isabeau


Blog_display


:

Princes of Dol Amroth

By:Isabeau
 February, 25 2006

Questions about the life and times of Imrahil and his family can be asked here, including questions about Ultimatums, Kin-Strife and the shorter stories. Discussions about Brand can go either here or in the Best-Loved Son thread, since his stories sort of overlap both cycles.


  Post A Comment

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30
292 replies


 [131] I wonder if they have wings, Andra might finally get over his fear of hights, can't quite see him with a harp though, or Cupid's bow and arrow

Nargil
Posted:Jun 5, 2006 18:20 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [132] I wonder if they have wings, Andra might finally get over his fear of hights, can't quite see him with a harp though, or Cupid's bow and arrow, and he would absolutley refuse a halo

Nargil
Posted:Jun 5, 2006 18:20 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [133] Sorry, Imhiriel, I seem to have skipped this one.

I love Imrahil's absolute faith about his fate after death, and that Arwen doubts a little - foreshadows one of her low points in the Tale of A & A.

Good! That was the exact intention.

I had to grin how neatly you circumvented any further elaboration on "your" family and "our" family. But I did wonder when Imrahil only mentioned one grandson. I assume he was speaking about Alphros, but what about Elfwine?

Wince. Because I forgot about Elfwine. Maybe I'll tweak that a bit. It appears to be my month to forget about grand-dads and grandkids alike...

What's this about the mention of Dale in the context of fighting? Is this one of Heth's future adventures? Perhaps even one of Faramir's or her visions?

You have Altariel to thank for that. It's the war Faramir doesn't go off to in Game of Chess. And Hethlin does.

Do you plan to publish "In All But Blood" as a separate story here on TFF some time?

Thinking about it. I plan to expand that into an actual story at some point in the distant future. But I can't do that without spoilers, so I probably should post the short version since other stories are referring to the incident now.

One mistake I noticed: "we could have stayed home by our hearths with no one thinking the worst of us." It should say "worse", I think.

Fixed. Thanks!


Posted:Jun 5, 2006 18:54 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [134] Nargil wrote: Along the same lines, Do Liahan and Esteven take over from Andra when he's gone? also does brand stay with the Swan knights as a captain or is he more a Lord of Gondor?

Well, Andra is certainly grooming Liahan to be his successor, and I think it's safe to say that Peloren is doing the same with Esteven.

I like the idea of Andra swearing loyalty to Aragorn, he finnaly made his peace with Gondor. Also it shows his love for Brand, the idea that he has a son, is wonderful.

I'm glad you like that. It does, in a way show that he has finally accepted that he is a Gondorian citizen. And it certainly is a tribute to his dedication to Brand.

As for Elphir being a pale immitation of Imrahil, I always got the picture that Elphir and Erchirion made up Imrahil, Elphir as the prince and leader and Erchirion as the younger Imri who sailed the high seas and supported Dol-Amroth's brothels single handedly. In the same way Lothiriel and Amrothos are like Nimrien the princess and the scholar.

That's a nice idea. I kind of think Lothiriel has a bit of her father in her as well, though-the very competent socialite part that moves easily up and down the social spectrum.

Was Imri still grieving for Andra all this time? he seems lost without him, and without Andra at the tailors his sense for the flamboyant has exploded.

He basically withdrew from court life for two years after Andra's death. He was very lost without him. You can't be that close to someone that long and not feel a great, gaping hole in your life. But as for Imrahil's taste exploding without Andra to rein it in-Andra never offered one opinion whatsoever during Imrahil's tailor trips and only one question-"Aren't you done yet?".

Yet another wonderful fic though, is it just one chapter? I can never tell, I thought kin-strife would end after chapter 3 so I'm no good at guessing.

Thanks! Yes, it's just the one chapter. And I thought Kin-strife would end after chapter 3 as well, so that makes two of us no good at guessing!;-)


Posted:Jun 5, 2006 23:43 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [135] Imhiriel asked: Question for Isabeau: Was this in fact in your mind, did you consciously "split up and distribute" the character traits of the parents to the children?

Not exactly. When I first wrote Heth's meeting with the Cygnets (I think it was CMC 12), I didn't know that Nimrien existed. I just knew that Imrahil was widowed. Lothiriel was going to be gracious and high-spirited and a proper lady, and I knew that Amrothos was going to be my Sherlock Holmes tribute. Poor 'Chiron took a little longer to come together as the naval captain. And by that time I was rather tired, and the easiest thing to do with Elphir (who was, of course, absent), was to just say that he resembled his father. Now I will say that I have played up their heritage from their parents since then, as they and Imrahil and Nimrien have all developed. But initially, it wasn't intentional at all.


Posted:Jun 5, 2006 23:58 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [136] I really enjoyed Confirmation, Isabeau. (On a related side note: Bless you, Altariel!) You wrote a wonderful first meeting between Brand and Imrahil. And it all had added poignancy when we learn that it fell on the anniversary of Boromirís death.

So the woman trouble between Imrahil and Erchirion was due to Veleda, then! Wouldnít you figure Ė the womanizer finally falls hard, and itís totally the wrong kind of womanÖ Chilling that Imrahil dreamed the future, of if Veleda was allowed to latch on to his son. Do you know more about her background? Iím curious because women in Harad have come across as being very demure and subservient, and although Veleda is Khandian I sort of continued the association. She certainly seemed to be someone of authority and brains in DAY. I have this vision of a from-the-other-side-PoV, and her being respected for her ďmannishĒ strengths the way Hethlin is (among some people) in Gondor. Not that Veleda had the Gondorian sense of honor as an assassin, but then again, from the other side maybe doing whatever it took to take down the enemy is considered honorable. She just seemed like a very interesting villain, and in a way I was sorry to see her hanged. Does she have any further interaction with Hethlin?

Why does Andrahar tell Brand about Imrahilís feelings for Heth? It seems a very personal thing for him to reveal to a 12-year-old (and not really Andraharís secret to tell).

I was also struck by Imrahilís comment about preferring Andrahar to be with him in Minas Tirith, since I thought that one of the main points of Hethlin going to Dol Amroth was to train with Andrahar. Was that just a shift in perspective, or was Imrahil clouding things a bit when he was explaining them to Brand? Although getting that different take on things was informative Ė it had not occurred to me before that Andra would of course still be grieving for Boromir, and dealing with that alone would be tough even before dealing with Hethlin was added into the mix.

Really loved how you showed Imrahilís obvious adoration of his family, especially Nimrien.

Is there a specific point at which Imrahil and/or Andrahar learn that Boromir knew (and even helped/approved) of Hethlin being in the Rangers? I suppose it would be sort of understood, as I canít imagine any of them believing that Faramir would/could keep such a thing from his brother.

I loved how you slipped in Denethorís sisters, the possible Numenorean female line of succession and potential political intricacies. Heh! Definitely enjoyed seeing that brought up.

When do the Cygnets learn who Brand is? That night at the dinner?

Naturally, Iím dying to get Hethís perspective on events Ė especially the hanging, now that youíve noted Brandís observances. Her view will of course be more mature, but I donít remember a time when she has witnessed Imrahil overseeing something like this, and being so grim. I loved Imrahil and Brandís little exchange over Hethlin, BTW, and how Imrahil dealt with poor Brand being overwhelmed by the disclosure of his parentage.

And something OT: Are you considering showing us more of Imrahil interacting with his mother? I donít know why, but Iíve been wishing for that since the beginning of Kin-StrifeÖ

Denise
Posted:Sep 30, 2006 23:59 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [137] Denise wrote: Chilling that Imrahil dreamed the future, of if Veleda was allowed to latch on to his son. Do you know more about her background? Iím curious because women in Harad have come across as being very demure and subservient, and although Veleda is Khandian I sort of continued the association.

No, I really don't know anything more about her background, though something may occur later on. The captain of the Sangahyando was actually a young Haradric nobleman. It might make an interesting story at some point.

Given what little else I've established about Khand, Harad might have seemed an improvement to Veleda. Think of her as someone like Anne Bonney, who definitely flouted society's conventions.


She just seemed like a very interesting villain, and in a way I was sorry to see her hanged. Does she have any further interaction with Hethlin?

I haven't decided if she has anything more to do with Heth or not, but I think it unlikely. And I agree, she was an interesting villain, and I shall probably regret not allowing her to escape to wreak havoc another day. Good villains are hard to find/create.

Why does Andrahar tell Brand about Imrahilís feelings for Heth? It seems a very personal thing for him to reveal to a 12-year-old (and not really Andraharís secret to tell).

I agree, but when I first wrote that, my muse insisted upon it and I usually don't argue with the muse. I may very well go back and change it later. It's possible that Brand overheard something from some other source-Lothiriel is the most likely, before she went to Rohan to live, because she'll get a clue here shortly in Silver Swan-and went to Andrahar for an explanation. Or it's possible that Andrahar did have a rare, fallible moment (Heth seems to make him have them!) and revealed that information because he was in a foul, disgruntled mood, and irritated at Brand's hero-worship. But I don't like to think that.


I was also struck by Imrahilís comment about preferring Andrahar to be with him in Minas Tirith, since I thought that one of the main points of Hethlin going to Dol Amroth was to train with Andrahar. Was that just a shift in perspective, or was Imrahil clouding things a bit when he was explaining them to Brand? Although getting that different take on things was informative Ė it had not occurred to me before that Andra would of course still be grieving for Boromir, and dealing with that alone would be tough even before dealing with Hethlin was added into the mix.

That was a shift in perspective, clouding things a bit and me not realizing that there might be a better way to word things! I'll look at that part again.

When do the Cygnets learn who Brand is? That night at the dinner?

Yes. Though I suspect Amrothos suspects already. That boy don't miss much.

Is there a specific point at which Imrahil and/or Andrahar learn that Boromir knew (and even helped/approved) of Hethlin being in the Rangers? I suppose it would be sort of understood, as I canít imagine any of them believing that Faramir would/could keep such a thing from his brother.

I haven't really decided yet. Obviously, Imrahil notices she's a woman in CMC, and since Faramir knows, by inference Boromir knows as well, since, like you said, Faramir doesn't keep things from Boromir. I suspect that at some point he sits down with his nephew and has a little talk about Hethlin, since he is so intrigued about her from the start. It most likely takes place before the picnic, since he consulted Faramir about what would be a good gift for Heth. And no, no plans to write that. Yet.;-)

Naturally, Iím dying to get Hethís perspective on events Ė especially the hanging, now that youíve noted Brandís observances. Her view will of course be more mature, but I donít remember a time when she has witnessed Imrahil overseeing something like this, and being so grim.

I've contemplated doing something about that in Silver Swan. Heth is actually on duty during the hangings and gets to see Imrahil in his role as judge. Imrahil is not the sort to do such things lightly, so he goes off afterwards and locks himself in his room for a day or so, refusing to see anyone, even Andra. Andra, who knows how he is, and who can be an evil bastard at times, sends Hethlin up with his dinner, since he's pretty sure Imrahil will let her in! Heth and Imrahil have a conversation about women who take roles not dictated by society and how they should be dealt with. Heth points out in annoyance (and justifiably so, given how men are) that if Veleda had been hag-ugly with warts all over her, they wouldn't be having all this drama about her!

And something OT: Are you considering showing us more of Imrahil interacting with his mother? I donít know why, but Iíve been wishing for that since the beginning of Kin-StrifeÖ

No plans to do so immediately, though I have contemplated the tale of 6-year-old Imri breaking his arm and being forced to stay in the vile Houses of Healing with the nasty, scratchy sheets from time to time. His mother would obviously figure prominently in that!

Isabeau
Posted:Oct 1, 2006 09:32 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [138] Think of her as someone like Anne Bonney, who definitely flouted society's conventions.

I looked up A.B. on Wikipedia. What a great character. And maybe there's an M-e version of Mary Read still out there... :)

Thank you for answering all those questions, Isabeau - and for all the hints of things to come! *rubs hands together in anticipation*

Heth and Imrahil have a conversation about women who take roles not dictated by society and how they should be dealt with. Heth points out in annoyance (and justifiably so, given how men are) that if Veleda had been hag-ugly with warts all over her, they wouldn't be having all this drama about her!

Ha, I love this! I feel we can always trust Hethlin to make Salient Points in her wonderful forthright way. Actually, reading your response, I think the main reason I asked about whether Veleda and Heth ever interact again is because I wondered what they would say to each other in the same sort of conversation. Veleda probably wouldn't have ever expected to be taken out by a Gondorian woman - her only weak spot, as Heth wasn't distracted by Veleda's feminine beauty and seemingly frail and delicate "Please-take-care-of-me" roleplaying.

Denise
Posted:Oct 3, 2006 02:01 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [139] Hi Isabeau, I loved Confirmation, I'm so glad Andra and Brand managed to stay together, they're prfect for each other, Brand needed a father figure and Andra needed someone to help him get over Boromir. Although Imri and a couple of bottles of wine do quite well. Where did Brand come from? I'm so overawed by all your wonderfull characters both the way you develope the cannon ones like Imrahil and your wonderfull OC's.

A comment Nimrien makes in ultimatumes made me wonder, she said she's no doubt there's a street or two where Andra is a popular man, or somthing along those lines, Does he have a lover in Pelargir?

*Star*
Posted:Oct 4, 2006 09:59 GMT  Reply to this Comment


 [140] Star wrote-A comment Nimrien makes in ultimatumes made me wonder, she said she's no doubt there's a street or two where Andra is a popular man, or somthing along those lines, Does he have a lover in Pelargir?

No, I don't think he ever did. Nimrien was taking a shot in the dark-she knew about Andrahar's tastes. And it did work to shut him up now, didn't it?


Posted:Oct 5, 2006 06:54 GMT  Reply to this Comment
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30

  Post A Comment
A Mike Kellner Web Site
Tolkien Characters, Locations, & Artifacts © Tolkien Estate & Designated Licensees - All Rights Reserved
Stories & Other Content © The Respective Authors - All Rights Reserved
Software & Design © 2003 - 2014 Michael G Kellner All Rights Reserved
Hosted by:Raven Studioz