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November, 12 2005
OK, folks-this is the general forum now for questions that don't seem to fit in any of the other threads. I'm going to sort some of the earlier posts into the appropriate forums, but it might take a while, so bear with me. I'll delete the ones that have already been reposted by their authors.
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 Hi, Eressa,
not to open the "who will she marry can of worms"
Few things seem to generate more posts... *g*
but I have a feeling it will be Brandmir.
There are some tantalizing hints, aren't there? Although there's still squeeable moments for I/H shippers like me... Add in mysterious exchanges with Faramir (does he still have her heart?), and that Elrohir is hardly out of the picture, and Heth's future seems as ambiguous as ever!
Arwen knew Heth's father, so it would seem like Elrohir would surely have ridden with him. I wonder if he's ever talked about it with Heth?
It'll be very interesting to see how the new movies turn out, and if they stir up the fandom like the trilogy did.
Posted:Apr 27, 2008 19:44 GMT Reply to this Comment
 Raksha said: I'm delighted to hear that you haven't forgotten Kin-strife and Ultimatums as well as Blackbow - I look forward to all of them being finished!
Ditto!! (Even if part of my wish is so your muses get freed up to finish SS and/or go on to the war in Rhun...)
Posted:Apr 27, 2008 19:49 GMT Reply to this Comment
 Denise wrote: Even if part of my wish is so your muses get freed up to finish SS and/or go on to the war in Rhun...
Me too! I like Brandimir but I find Hethlin's character to be more compelling, so my fingers are crossed that Isabeau's muse will turn her attention that way soon. Some of us have been hoping to see the resolution to the aforementioned can of worms for aaaaages! Now THAT's the mark of a good story!
Posted:Apr 28, 2008 11:31 GMT Reply to this Comment
 Oh, I meant to say "good storyteller" -- of course it's a good story, too!
Posted:Apr 28, 2008 11:34 GMT Reply to this Comment
 Or she could write more blackbow, I still want to see the results of the "how to get Faramir's shirt off?" brainstorm and what happens tpo the orcs Boromir and the horseless knights.
Posted:Apr 28, 2008 16:04 GMT Reply to this Comment
 Ohhhhhhh my book copy of captain my captain has arrived it looks and feels as good as any other paper back you can buy on amazon! i love it - going to dip straight into the story, I have to admit though I can't wait until the 1st chapter Elrohir appears :)
Posted:Apr 30, 2008 18:47 GMT Reply to this Comment
 Cool! Is there anyway you can post a snapshot of the cover?
Posted:Apr 30, 2008 23:16 GMT Reply to this Comment
 Just a question (especially to you Rebecca)- but do you think Elrohir loves Hethlin more than a friend, the fact that he tells her that she is not bound to him but is able to have other parters and that he does not promise himself to keep faithful. For someone who was raped - the fact that he says this to her, asking for an open relationship I find quite insensitive.
Would he give up his immortality for her besides the fact that he'd be bored in Valinor? Is she something that he loves and cares for? Or is it a love for the "partner of that moment", my guess would be he's scared of deepening his feelings for her (and visa versa) so asks her to have more partners(?)
Anyway rambling thoughts - its been ages since I read the whole story.
Posted:May 1, 2008 18:36 GMT Reply to this Comment
 I never saw it as that, they are quite close, with the soul bond and all, I think lovers is the correct term for it, they care for one another but yet he is not the love of her life. I think Heth was quite hung up on the idea of sleeping with anyone because of what happened Elrohir helped her with that and gave her the chance to start to look at men (males?) other than Faramir.
And hey, if they want to enjoy themselves a bit why not, Modern women don't seem to sit around at 20 somthing legs crossed waiting for Mr Right (well not all of them) and Heth seems to be more modern minded than a lot of court ladies, I think she says somthing similar to Eowyn:
“Aye, I am. I am the head of my house, by the King’s decree,” she looked envious for a moment, “and I am barren. That means that no man will ever want to wed me, but I have no intention of living my life alone--or without comfort and pleasure. If you think that makes me some sort of loose woman, I am sorry.” Eowyn grimaced.
“No, I didn’t mean that! I should know by now that the usual rules don’t apply to you. It just took me aback, that is all--that you would sleep with someone you didn’t love.”
“Well, seeing as the man I love won’t have a thing to do with me in that fashion, I really have no choice but to sleep with people I am friends with instead!” I grinned at her to soften the sting of it,
(chapter 36 of CMC)
I think later on they are scared of things, but then they resolve them, after all, Heth will grow up more we even see that in passages, I think it's quite likley they just end up as friends without hearbreak.
Posted:May 1, 2008 19:01 GMT Reply to this Comment
 Cue the suspenseful music -- we're getting into turbulent waters again!!
Eressa wrote: do you think Elrohir loves Hethlin more than a friend?
Well, yes, that's how I read it the first time I read CMC (and all subsequent times for that matter). Without actually going back to read it -- and I don't have a nice, bound copy to leaf through quickly! (hee hee) -- the things that led me to that conclusion are the way that Elrohir shuts himself off via their mental link at key moments, and the fact that Elrond views their relationship as a problem sufficient enough to warrant extracting an ill-advised vow from Elrohir to go to Valinor. Plus, their interaction is just the kind of playful-but-skirting-something-deeper thing that I find romantic. But this last thing is just me, perhaps!
the fact that he tells her that she is not bound to him but is able to have other parters and that he does not promise himself to keep faithful. For someone who was raped - the fact that he says this to her, asking for an open relationship I find quite insensitive.
Hm... I'm not sure about that, haven't thought about it before. I would think, without any first-hand knowledge, that being raped (especially repeatedly over the course of many days, by people who would kill you without thinking twice about it) would involve an enormous sense of loss of control. I probably can't truly, fully imagine how awful it would be, to not have any say about what was being done to your body, and by whom, and when, and how. But I think that, in addition to the pain, disgust, and sheer terror, recovering from an experience like Hethlin's would involve fully regaining a sense of control over what you did with your body (and when, how, with whom, etc.).
Maybe I'm really off-base there. But if I'm not, then it seems reasonable to think that a woman in Hethlin's shoes would benefit from a concerned, tender, careful lover who wasn't trying to exert any control over her, no?
Would he give up his immortality for her besides the fact that he'd be bored in Valinor?
Well, that's another thing that always led me to see their relationship as serious and very plausible -- because Isabeau has depicted Elrohir as quite conflicted about Valinor, long before he knew Hethlin, and therefore not sure about his immortality. To step out of Isabeau's story for a moment, my own view about immortality in general, and that of the Elves in particular, is that it's at best a mixed blessing. I'm not sure that it's an entirely positive thing.
But anyway, I've always read Isabeau's Elrohir as being unconvinced that life-everlasting in Valinor is right for him. His father wants him there, of course. And he'd like to see his mother again, since her departure was abrupt and under unhappy circumstances. So if he did really fall for Hethlin, that might finally tip the scale for him against going to Valinor -- but the way I saw it, he wouldn't be giving up something that he otherwise would have embraced wholeheartedly.
Is she something that he loves and cares for?
I always thought so!
Or is it a love for the "partner of that moment", my guess would be he's scared of deepening his feelings for her (and visa versa) so asks her to have more partners(?)
I agree with you, Eressa, I think she's not just a passing fancy for him. Elrohir might be playful and perverse at times, but he'd never take a young woman as emotionally vulnerable as Hethlin and toy with her just for a fling, or just to teach Faramir a lesson, nor even to merely show her that sex can be fun for her too. Not even if he was taking care to make sure she didn't get too attached. I don't think that his brother and sister would stand for it. I don't think he'd do that to his foster brother's kin. I think he wouldn't do it because he's an elf, is too decent, and has too much honor.
Indeed, I've always seen his insistence that the two of them are free to take other lovers and are not in love as a) a way of resolving a bit of cognitive dissonance (since he's not yet ready to tell Elrond to stuff it, because he's not going to Valinor), and b) a way to make sure that Hethlin has the freedom and space to grow as she needs to, without any attachment that might be cumbersome to her at this stage of her development, when so many doors are open to her. If they still are connected in five or ten years, when she's had a chance to mature and make her own choices about her destiny, I could see Elrohir deciding it's okay to ask for/offer her more than a casual love affair. As I've said in past discussions, if he decides to stay in Middle Earth (which, by my reading, is his true inclination), I think he'd want a family of his own.
Is that how you see it, Eressa? It's great to be discussing this stuff again, although since there aren't any new developments in the Hethlin story on the horizon, this is all somewhat pointless conjecture. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Isabeau's muse will take pity on us sometime soon!
Gwídhiel (aka Rebecca - I decided I should get in the spirit of things and get a proper Sindarian name!)
Posted:May 1, 2008 22:03 GMT Reply to this Comment
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